Winchester model 52 serial numbers. The Winchester Model 62 is a slide-action repeating rifle produced by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in the early 20th century. The gun replaced the Model 1906. It was a take down rifle that was able to accept most .22 caliber cartridges. Around serial number 98000 (1940) minor changes in the mechanism lead to the model designation 62A.

Great deals on Winchester 52 Gun Parts In Rifle Parts. Trick out or upgrade your firearm with the largest gun parts selection at eBay.com. Fast & Free shipping on many items! ... Winchester Model 52 .22 Rifle, Trigger Pull Adjusting Screw, part# 6452CD, W1034. $39.00. $6.00 shipping.

Post the serial number and it will tell us when it was made and the probable variation. These were made from 1919 into the 1950's. I don't think a suffix was added until the mid 1930's. The earliest guns will have a finger groove forend. Actually the last made was in 1980, the "E" variant. clarence on Winchester model 52Model 52D (1961): In 1956 the US Olympic rifle team commissioned ten custom Model 52C's for the upcoming Melbourne Games. These became the prototypes for the Style D when Winchester elected to redesign the entire rifle literally lock, stock, and barrel. The 52D action differed from its predecessors in being a single-shot: eliminating the ...

Nov 10, 2011 · NVaVettes Premium Member · #7 · Nov 12, 2011. Zander's "heavy-ish barrel" 52B. My gun has serial number 10NP800163x. It is roll-marked as a Winchester, has a muzzle diameter of .676 inches and has the flat but recessed crown. It does NOT have the barrel band screw in the middle diamond checkering on the forearm. Make: Winchester Model: Model 52 B Serial Number: 62443B Year of Manufacture: 1948 Caliber: .22 LR Action Type: Bolt Action Rifle Markings: The left side of the barrel is marked “Winchester / Proof Steel / Model 52 / Winchester / Trade Mark . .22 Long R.”. There is a Winchester Proof Mark on the left side of the barrel and the frame.Winchester Model 1873: Covering numbers: 1 - 702349. Please enter a serial number and click the submit button. ...Make: Winchester. Model: 52-E Prefix International Match Rifle. Serial Number: E122698. Year of Manufacture: 1968-1975 (The barrel marking on this rifle was introduced by Winchester in 1969, development of the Type-E began in late 1968 but the model was not introduced until 1975) Caliber: .22 Long Rifle. Action Type: Bolt Action, Single Shot Rifle SOLD - $450.00. Shipping: $9.00. Accepted Payment Methods: Returns: No Returns. Description: Winchester 52D trigger. Looks new. Does not show sign of being installed in a rigfle. screws show no sign of being adjusted with screwdriver. Condition: Never fired. Item #: 930045531.1. January 16, 2021 - 2:19 am. I recently purchased a Winchester Model 55 take down in 30 wcf. The serial number is 1039589. According to the Redbook of Winchester Values, this serial number falls within the Model 55 as well as the Model 94 range. I can't seem to find what year my 55 was manufactured.According to Herbert Houze’s excellent book, The Winchester Model 52 — Perfection In Design, there were 1,314 Sporter C models made between 1954 and 1960, when the model was discontinued.”. With the serial number this one seems to fit in 1956, just where the article states.Model 52 Model 54 Model 56 & 57 Model 58 Model 59 Rifle Model 60 & 60-A Model 60-A Target Model 67 Model 677 Model 68 Model 69 Model 697 Model 70 Model 72 Model 75 Model 99 Thumb Trigger Model 121 $ 121T Model 131 & 135 Model 141 & 145 310 And 320 Models Model 670 Model 670 Mag 770 & 770 Mag. Models . Semi-Auto Rifles top.CRUFFLER.COM. presents. Dates of Production by Model and Serial Number for Model 52. Total Production: 125,419

In 1867, the New Haven Arms Company was re-organized and became known as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, with Oliver Winchester serving as president, treasurer, and board member. The new company also introduced a new firearm, the Winchester Model 1866. These .44 rimfire caliber brass-framed arms were available in musket, rifle, and ...Post the serial number and it will tell us when it was made and the probable variation. These were made from 1919 into the 1950's. I don't think a suffix was added until the mid 1930's. The earliest guns will have a finger groove forend. Actually the last made was in 1980, the "E" variant. clarence on Winchester model 52Sold Date: 2 weeks ago. $1,751.99 - Used .22 S/L/LR BEAUTIFUL WINCHESTER MODEL 52D 22LR US MARKED WITH 24X SCOPE. Sold Location: Camp Verde, AZ 86322. Sold Date: 2 weeks ago. $599.99 - Used .22 LR WINCHESTER 52 22LR MATCH RIFLE 28 INCH " BARREL. Sold Location: Houston, TX 77032. Sold Date: 2 weeks ago. Winchester catalogs of the time listed all Model 52s as either 52Ds or as "International" models; arguably the "52E" never existed as a separate Style, but arose from the E-prefixed serial numbers mandated by the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Factory letters containing Winchester SNA dates only are $40 for non-members. Learn more about firearms membership here. Find the full list of available Winchester models and serial number ranges here (Winchester on pages 3 and 4). Winchester Model 21. Model 21 shotguns are the exception to the above Winchester records information.

Serial Number. To the maximum extent possible, the dates of manufacture shown were obtained from the original Winchester Factory Polishing Room serialization records; …

BUFFALO BILL CENTER OF THE WEST 720 Sheridan Avenue Cody, WY 82414 307-587-4771 Contact Us. +. The Cody Firearms Records Office has rare access to the select serial number records from Winchester, Marlin, and L.C. Smith.The 42nd Edition of the "Blue Book of Gun Values" lists Model 42s being worth anywhere from $1,000 to $15,000, depending on grade and features. But, some examples go for much more than that ...The Model 1892 was briefly offered in Winchester's .218 Bee caliber from 1936 to 1938, using Model 53 receivers and barrels. Rifles and carbines in this caliber are considered rare. Original Winchester factory records are available for this model from the Cody Firearms Museum in Cody , Wyoming , from serial number 1 thru 379999. Videos of ...2. Serial # is 1946XXX. Numbers on barrel and receiver match. 3. Between the serial number and forearm there are no stampings other than an arrow pointing toward the forearm wood. No other ID such as "trap" or "pigeon" is there. 4. Full choke. This Model 12 works wonderfully well.Winchester-Lee Straight Pull Rifle Model 1890 Model 1906 Model 61 Model 62 and 62A Model 1903 Model 63 Model 1905 Model 1907 Model 1910 Model 55 (Rimfire Rifle) 📷. Model 74 Model 77 Model 100 Model 88 Model 99 or Thumb Trigger. 📷. Model 1900. 📷. Model 1902 Model 1904. 📷.

Winchester Model 52-B 28″ .22 LR Bolt Action Rifle Unertl 8x, 1937 C&R Sold for $1700.00 LSB#: 220816AS007 Make: Winchester Model: 52B Serial Number: 46761B Year of […] Posted on November 13, 2022Winchester 52 C. The story of how the special single-shot 52's developed for the Olympics became the 52 D is also there. Houze also includes 7 appendixes' that catalog the various model numbers, specifications, and sales figures, serial number ranges and Model 52 brochures. The only fault I can find with this work is in the final chapter.WINCHESTER DATES OF MANUFACTURE. Winchester Model 100:Covering numbers: 1 - 263170. Please enter a serial number and click the submit button.Presented for you today is a Winchester Model 52-B Heavy Barrel in .22LR. This target shooter’s favorite was manufactured in 1946, is in excellent condition and includes a J.W. Fecker scope. ... Winchester. Model: Model 52. Serial Number: 54473. Action: Bolt. Caliber.22 Long Rifle. Barrell Length: 28" Barrel Shape: Round. Sights: J.W. Fecker ...Post the serial number and it will tell us when it was made and the probable variation. These were made from 1919 into the 1950's. I don't think a suffix was added until the mid 1930's. The earliest guns will have a finger groove forend. Actually the last made was in 1980, the "E" variant. clarence on Winchester model 52BUFFALO BILL CENTER OF THE WEST 720 Sheridan Avenue Cody, WY 82414 307-587-4771 Contact Us. +. The Cody Firearms Records Office has rare access to the select serial number records from Winchester, Marlin, and L.C. Smith.This auction is for my early 4 digit serial number Model 52 rifle. I had a collection of Model 52's- 52, 52A, 52B, 52C, 52D, 52 Int'l Match- all in excellent . HOME; GUNS FOR SALE. ... Winchester Early Model 52 With 4 Digit Serial Number (Mfg. 1927), Has Most Of Original Finish .22 LR Auction: 17172933. GunAuction.com / Guns For Sale ...I recently paid $1600 for a 52B built in early 60's that's in remarkable condition with beautiful Marble/Goss target sights. I passed up many others in $700-$1200 range but wanted pristine condition, so paid a premium. NRA Life Member. patriot. Posts: 272. Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:59 am. Re: Winchester Model 52 values.Thus far, Experimental Design No. 111 was a single-shot, but in the fall of 1918 a design change order stipulated that the rifle have a five-round detachable magazine, sending both Johnson and...Model 1912, 20 gauge, 2 1/2 chamber, original stock and forend. The butt place I am trying to find a replacement for, it had been in storage and the bottom of the stock had slight water damage. I sanded it lightly, and lightened the darken shade and re-oiled it to give it a good shine.$771.00 - Used WINCHESTER MODEL 52-A SPEED-LOCK .22 LR BOLT ACTION TARGET RIFLE, 1936 C&R 230807RW004 Sold Location: Simi Valley, CA 93065 ... .22 LR 1924 Winchester Target Model 52 28 inch Barrel 22 Low serial number 2097. PRICE: $460.00 MANUFACTURER: Winchester CONDITION: New MODEL: 52 SOLD: …The 1942 Component Parts catalog lists a Bradley 1/8" or 5/32" Ivory or Red Bead Front Sights at $1.00 each and a Winchester White Metal Middle 94B at $0.18. The catalog also list a Middle Sight for Matted Rib 94B 0.067" Bead for $0.18. I can only guess what the difference between the two 94B sights.$771.00 - Used WINCHESTER MODEL 52-A SPEED-LOCK .22 LR BOLT ACTION TARGET RIFLE, 1936 C&R 230807RW004 Sold Location: Simi Valley, CA 93065 ... .22 LR 1924 Winchester Target Model 52 28 inch Barrel 22 Low serial number 2097. PRICE: $460.00 MANUFACTURER: Winchester CONDITION: New MODEL: 52 SOLD: 3/2/2023 12:00:00 AM: UPC: LOCATION: Chapin, SC ...Winchester 52 serial number 42 I was at Forks of the Delaware River show in Allentown Pa last week. Picked up a Win 52. To my surprise it was serial # 42. Anybody have any history on these rifles. I know that the first 44 Remington 37s were introduced at Camp Perry in 1936. Did Winchester do similar thing with the very first 52's?Winchester-Lee Straight Pull Rifle Model 1890 Model 1906 Model 61 Model 62 and 62A Model 1903 Model 63 Model 1905 Model 1907 Model 1910 Model 55 (Rimfire Rifle) 📷. Model 74 Model 77 Model 100 Model 88 Model 99 or Thumb Trigger. 📷. Model 1900. 📷. Model 1902 Model 1904. 📷.Model 52 Model 54 Model 56 & 57 Model 58 Model 59 Rifle Model 60 & 60-A Model 60-A Target Model 67 Model 677 Model 68 Model 69 Model 697 Model 70 Model 72 Model 75 Model 99 Thumb Trigger Model 121 $ 121T Model 131 & 135 Model 141 & 145 310 And 320 Models Model 670 Model 670 Mag 770 & 770 Mag. Models . Semi-Auto Rifles top.Winchester didn't care for its stodgy image with the Models 1890, 1906 and 62 rifles, so it brought out the Model 61 in answer to the racy Remington and Marlin rifles. The Model 61 featured a ...

The Rossi Model 62 SAC .22 rimfire "Gallery Gun" is very possibly the best classic pump-action reproduction ever made. Here's a full review. December 07, 2021 By Joseph von Benedikt. Sleek, well-made, and configured like Winchester's pump-action Model 62, the Rossi 62 was manufactured in Brazil between 1970 and 1998 and imported into this ...There are 52's, 52A's, 52B's, 52C's, 52D'c, and a Win M52E. Since yours has a magazine, it is probably a C or earlier. If it is a B, the action is fine, the trigger is undesirable and I don't know anyone making a trigger for a M52 anything, anymore. the serial number is on the receiver at least with the D model. Don't have an earlier modelSerial Number: 86964C Year of Manufacture: 1955 Caliber: .22 Long Rifle Action Type: Bolt Action with Removable Magazine ... Our Assessment: For many years the Winchester Model 52 was the premier small bore match rifle in the the world. Known as the "King of the .22's," the Model 52 has been called one of the 50 best guns ever made by ...hamburger Discussion starter · Feb 10, 2007. I LOOKED AT A WINCHESTER MODEL 12 TODAY . THERE IS ONE THING I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS GUN . THE SERIAL NUMBERS ARE 4205807 AND BOTH NUMBERS MATCH. THE GUN LOOKS PERFECTLY NORMAL FOR THIS AGE . ALOT OF THE BLUING IS GONE, …The only series with an accurate number is the Model 52C, the last ones produced. According to Herbert Houze’s excellent book, The Winchester Model 52 — Perfection In Design, there were 1,314 Sporter C models made between 1954 and 1960, when the model was discontinued. The C series is generally considered by collectors to be the finest of ...April 28, 2012. Offline. 6. June 5, 2015 - 5:24 pm. Model 52’s on average improved accuracy as the series went on. The C-D and E (especially the D and E series) seemed to deliver better accuracy and had better triggers than the previous Model 52’s.

My brother has a later 69A sporting rifle. Some differences as to age are the way the magazines are marked on the bottom, and front sights. My magazine has, "Made in USA-Winchester-Trade Mark" stamped on it, his simply "Winchester". My front sight is a dovetail with a blade pinned in, his is one piece, like a typical 50's .22 rifle.Winchester Model 52: Covering numbers: 1 - 125451. Please enter a serial number and click the submit button. ...Winchester 52. Winchester Model 52C. Jump to Latest Follow 6138 Views 44 Replies 17 Participants Last post by dbl, Jun 25, 2009. H. hartmn Discussion starter · ... Serial number 93185C. I read another post on this forum where it was asked if the barrel's finish on the 52C's bull should be blued or sand-blasted. I think mine is correct, but am ...THE WINCHESTER MODEL 52 by Houze, Herbert G. and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now ... George Hertel's Model 52 Serial Number Assignment Log 1920 to 1942; Model 52 Serial Number Assignment Log 1942 to 1949; annual orders and sales, 1920 to 1948; sales from 1953 to 1980; annotated summary of …D. doubs43 · #10 · Jun 24, 2014 (Edited) Big Larry said: That would depend upon the intended purpose of the rifle. If shooting from a bench is the game, then the 20X would be better than a 5X. For field use, the 20X is not as good as the 5X. In 1929 my father bought a like new 1928 pre-A Model 52 Target rifle.Winchester Model 52 .22 LR caliber rifle. Rare proto type model 52 rifle. Action has a short throw near straight pull mechanism. 28" barrel marked Eric Johnson. Serial number 2! This rifle is pictured in World Famous Winchester Model 52 Rarities. A desirable proto type rifle! Serial number 2*patriot* winchester 52a & 52b *reduced* power trigger spring kit ! ~hunters~competition~target shooters~ this auction is for a *new* in the package *patriot* reduced power trigger spring kit. this kit reduces trigger pull by up to 37 %! the kit works by replacing your *heavy* factory trigger spring with a *reduced* power trigger spring, this conversion will reduce the *heavy* pressure and ...Ruger52 Discussion starter · Jul 4, 2013. I was cleaning my old Win. model 72 .22 the other day. I haven't shot it in a year. It never dawned on me before this. There is no serial number anywhere to be found. This rifle was bought by my grandfather, who knows when, probably in the 40's, maybe earlier. My dad gave it to me in 1979.The 1942 Component Parts catalog lists a Bradley 1/8" or 5/32" Ivory or Red Bead Front Sights at $1.00 each and a Winchester White Metal Middle 94B at $0.18. The catalog also list a Middle Sight for Matted Rib 94B 0.067" Bead for $0.18. I can only guess what the difference between the two 94B sights.The original 52B was introduced in 1940 and had a 5 shot detachable magazine. A 100% rifle would go for around $2500 to whatever. They stopped production in 1978. Serial numbers ended with E 125315. Prior to 1968 they just had a number, no E prefix. The 52B was re-issued in 1993. The re-issued rifle has a steel buttplate, forearm adjusting ...The 1942 Component Parts catalog lists a Bradley 1/8" or 5/32" Ivory or Red Bead Front Sights at $1.00 each and a Winchester White Metal Middle 94B at $0.18. The catalog also list a Middle Sight for Matted Rib 94B 0.067" Bead for $0.18. I can only guess what the difference between the two 94B sights.Dec 30, 2011 · 52 Model Serial Number Ranges. Below is my latest listing of serial number ranges associated with the various models/revisions for the 52 rifle. I plan updating this as pertinent numbers are discovered. If anyone has suggestions for improving the format or new numbers to add to the list, please send them to me at [email protected]. Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 52 Serial Number: 100UT0452 Barrel Length: 24 . See all listings by Alligood's Print this listing. Click Photo to Enlarge: Guns International #: 101797928 Seller's Inventory #: 79118 Category - Winchester Rifles - Model 52 - Winchester Commemorative Rifles.February 15, 2013 - 11:37 pm. Yes, the Model 1892 serial numbers are almost as far off as the Model 1894 in the early years, then they catch up and get close, and then they drift off again in later years. Model 1894 serial number 82701 went through the Polishing Room in Janaury of the year 1900. Model 1892 serial number 325302 went through the ...winchester 52b for sale and auction. Buy a winchester 52b online. Sell your winchester 52b for FREE today on GunsAmerica! ... Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. 26" Barrel. Seller: StandardMfgCo ... Winchester 52.22LR Rifle . Seller: FMZGUNS (FFL) FMZGUNS (FFL) Gun #: 941538955. 1 Image(s)Model 52 Sporter (2 patterns) Model 52 Pre-Clover Leaf Tang Target, Straight Barrel. Model 52 or 75 Target. Model 52 Pre-64 Barrel Band. Model 67 Fluted Forearm. Model 100 Pressel Checkering. Model 70 post ADL Factory (no cheek rest) Model 70 post ADL Factory (with cheek rest) Model 70 post ADL Featherweight.A change in the breech-bolt mechanism brought about a change in the name designation from Model 62 to Model 62A. This occurred around serial number 98000. Letter "A" now appears behind the serial number. This model stayed in production until 1958. Collectors will concede a premium for guns built prior to WWII, with small slide handles.Mar 1, 2003 · 2297 · #4 · Mar 1, 2003. Madis Dates of Manuf. According to my copy of George Madis' "WINCHESTER; DATES OF MANUFACTURE", Model 52's beginning with serial number 2706 through serial number 3858 were manufactured in 1925. That would be the 6th year of manufacture; initial start-up on this model was in 1919. john p. Reply.

Model 1866. Model 1873. Model 1876. Model 1885 Single Shot. Model 1886. Model 1892. Model 1894 (Mod 94) Model 1895. Model 53.

Winchester Model 1873: Covering numbers: 1 - 702349. Please enter a serial number and click the submit button. ...

SOLD FOR: $1850. LSB#: 211005CI03. Make: Winchester Repeating Arms. Model: 92. Serial Number: 924614. Year of Manufacture: 1924. Caliber: .25-20 WCF (.25-20 Winchester Center Fire) Action Type: Lever Action, Tubular Magazine Fed. Markings: The left shoulder of the barrel is marked "MANUFACTURED BY THE WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS CO.It has a bull barrel, and Redfield peep hooded sights and is the finest Model 52 made. Comes with the certificate of authenticity. $2950 or best offer Shipping: $75, insurance extra upon request ... Winchester Model: 52C Serial Number: 917XXC Barrel Length: 26 Condition: Excellent Metal Condition: Excellent Wood Condition: Very Good Plus Bore ...There are 52's, 52A's, 52B's, 52C's, 52D'c, and a Win M52E. Since yours has a magazine, it is probably a C or earlier. If it is a B, the action is fine, the trigger is undesirable and I don't know anyone making a trigger for a M52 anything, anymore. the serial number is on the receiver at least with the D model. Don't have an earlier modelBased on my exerience. You have a 52E. Winchester made a change in serial numbers with the beginning of E's. Prior to E production, any 52 with a revision designation i.e. A,B,C etc, all had the revision letter at the end of the serial number. Beginning with the E, it was actually a prefix at the front of serial number.Winchester Model 52 M52 Transitional D / E International Prone, Blue 28" Single Shot Benchrest Bolt Action Rifle, MFD 1968. ... The serial number on this rifle places manufacture in 1968, when the D was still in transition to E; the barrels on "E" rifles were 27" with a counterbored muzzle, this one has a 28" heavy profile barrel ...Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 52 Serial Number: 100UT0452 Barrel Length: 24 . See all listings by Alligood's Print this listing. Click Photo to Enlarge: Guns International #: 101797928 Seller's Inventory #: 79118 Category - Winchester Rifles - Model 52 - Winchester Commemorative Rifles.Both the Model 12's I have are pre 64's. There is one available that is post 64 but not a "Y" model. The gun's serial number is 1969129 In Stadt's book he says "Trap, Skeet and Field: 12 Gauge (1972-1976)" "Production guns with rectangular post ribs, engine turned bolts and carriers, new checking patterns, and a new metal pistol grip cap saying "Winchester Repeating Arms" were introduced in ...Based on my exerience. You have a 52E. Winchester made a change in serial numbers with the beginning of E's. Prior to E production, any 52 with a revision designation i.e. A,B,C etc, all had the revision letter at the end of the serial number. Beginning with the E, it was actually a prefix at the front of serial number.A few years back I had the great fortune of adding a Winchester Model 52 Sporter to my collection. I’m told by the serial number it was made in 1954 (Ser # 90818C ) This rifle is in absolute perfect condition. If you look hard, there is a small scuff on the barrel, about 3/4″ long by 1/32″ wide where the rifle was in a verticle stand ...

xfinity portable wifidulliesbiggest leviathan subnautica1320 sat percentile Winchester model 52 serial numbers seamar my chart [email protected] & Mobile Support 1-888-750-6161 Domestic Sales 1-800-221-9118 International Sales 1-800-241-6714 Packages 1-800-800-4058 Representatives 1-800-323-8166 Assistance 1-404-209-5451. I recently came by a model 52 and am trying to figure out the actual date of manufacture. It's serial number is 16314 and "Old guns" says 1930. Houze's study of the 52 has serial number 16036 as made in 1928. It's an amazing rifle and I am trying to figure out which version it is, ie: speed lock ,etc.. www mypepsico com login Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 52 Serial Number: 8097 Barrel Length: 28 inches Condition: Excellent Metal Condition: Excellent Wood Condition: Excellent Bore Condition: Excellent . Contact Seller *Your Name: *Your Email: *Your Phone Number: *Message: Yes! I would like to receive news and updates from Guns International. This address will not ...The Model 1912, also known as the Model 12, was Winchester's first slide-action hammerless shotgun designed by T.C. Johnson. It had a strong frame and a hidden hammer, and the chamber was lengthened to accommodate 2-3/4 inch shells in 1927 and later for 3-inch shells. 28597846819.pdf The Heavy Duck Gun was introduced in 1935 and was chambered ... taino symbols sunla z boy fabric codes Winchester Model 42: Covering numbers: 1 - 160013. Please enter a serial number and click the submit button. ... houston weather report hourlyfuse box 2011 f150 New Customers Can Take an Extra 30% off. There are a wide variety of options. Key Takeaway: The serial number on a Winchester firearm is an essential identifier that can be used to determine the year of manufacture, model, and other important information.To find your serial number, look at the side or bottom of your gun’s frame or receiver for an engraved stamping containing several characters (usually 6-8).After being inspired by the Article in the Fall 2018 Winchester Collector “Discovering the Winchester Model 52” I felt the time was right to finally break out my 1930 Vintage Model 52 Serial Number#21698. I had a search done by Cody a number of years ago which revealed it was shipped from New Haven back on September 23,1930. I decided to ...Here's a list of Serial numbers and production dates to go along with the introduction time line. Winchester Pre 64 Model 70 Information Bolt action rifle, made in Short Rifle (Carbine), Standard, Featherweight, Magnum, Varmint, Super Grade or Match versions. Introduced in 1935 but not sold until 1937 starting at S/N 1 & made to up 1963 …